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How to Calculate Your Retirement Needs in Future Dollars – Your Money, Your Wealth® podcast 431

How much will money will you need in retirement,
adjusted for inflation? Today on Your Money, Your Wealth® podcast
431 Joe and Big Al spitball on your future dollars, how to calculate the tax on Roth
conversions, and the benefits of converting in down markets. Plus, should retirement savings contributions
be half pre-tax and half post tax? And finally, saving to a 529 plan for your
kids, or sending them to Hollywood stunt training camp – which would you do!? If you’ve got money questions, comments,
suggestions or stories, visit and click Ask Joe & Al On Air to send ‘em

I’m producer Andi Last, and here are the
hosts of Your Money, Your Wealth®, Joe Anderson, CFP® and Big Al Clopine, CPA. Joe: I got Jared from Clifton Park, New York. “Hey gang, love the podcast. Been listening for 6 months.” All right, new listener. “I estimate I need $40,000 per year to maintain
my current lifestyle. Would like to bag work in about 15 years.” What’s that- you'd like to bag work? I haven’t heard that- Al: Yeah, that's a good one. i.e., that means quit. Joe: I can't wait to bag work. “What would your portfolio value need to
be in future inflated dollars? Okay. Currently- so $40,000 a year- he wants to
bag work in 15 years. So how much money does he need? Is that what he is asking? Al: Yep. I already did the math. So, so Joe, the- if you take a 3% inflation,
$40,000 is in 15 years, is $62,000.

At 3.5%, $67,000. So let's just say $65,000 is your spin. And we don't know how old he is, so that makes
it a little bit more difficult. But I'm gonna just say 3.5% distribution rate,
because I think- Joe: $2,500,000. Al: Well, I got $1,900,000. Because I think he's gonna be close to 60
based upon his wife's age. So I'm kind of reading between the lines. You haven't got there yet, Joe, but that's
what I'm thinking. Joe: Got it. Al: So, yeah. Yeah. Okay. So let's just say between $2,000,000 and $2,500,000. But that doesn't consider any other kind of
fixed income, like pensions, Social Security. There's a lot more that we don't really know. Joe: All right, I'll continue on. “Currently have $357,000 in a 401(k), $175,000
in a Roth, $27,000 in a brokerage account. I max out my Roth each year, defer 23% of
my wages that vary from year to year. Will make about $70,000 this year.” 23%. That's a pretty high number. A: That's very high. Joe: “I have $100,000 left on my mortgage,
rate is 3.25%. I contribute $2500 a year to my 13-year old's
529 plan.” So if this was my scenario, I would be like

Andi: Wow. You're really spending a lot of time thinking
about that age as a father thing, aren't you? Joe: Yeah. Man, it's a two-year-old. It's like, my God, I didn't know it- “Wife
has pension and maxes out her Roth. She'll be eligible to bag work at 55, but
I'll keep her working longer for health insurance, hopefully.” Andi: Oh, Jared. Joe: Okay. “We drive a 2015 Ford F150. Have a 9-year-old terrier mixed mutt rescue. Drink of choices a German hefeweizen. Enjoy pronouncing that.” How about that? Right? Surprised you. “Would love to hear a number that you guys
come up with.” All right, well you need $2,500,000. Let's call it on the high side. Probably real high side because he probably
has Social Security and if he's only wanting to spend $40,000, he makes roughly $70,000
to whatever. Say, you know, his Social Security's gonna
at least cover half that.

Al: I would think so. But his wife is working. We don't know her salary. She has a pension. We don't know what that is. We don't know what the Social Security is. We don't know how old you are. So it makes it a little bit hard of a question
to ask. But I would agree with you, Joe $2,500,000
is probably on the high side. It's probably lower when you consider wife's
pension. When you consider Social Security. Joe: He's got $560,000. He saves $16,000 a year. That's 20% of his income. Al: What's that come out to be in 15 years? Joe: I got- there.

Then we got $16,000 there. We got 15 years. What do you wanna do? 7%. 6%. Al: Do 7%. Joe: 7% growth rate. Future value. There's $1,975,000. Al: There you go. You're kind of on track based upon the assumptions
we're making. Joe: Yeah. Given the numbers that we got. And this is total hypothetical, but yeah,
if you get 7%, you keep saving 23% of your income or $16,000 a year with the amount of
money that you saved over the next 15 years, you should have close to $2,000,000. And yeah, back of the envelope, it looks like
you're in pretty good shape, Jared. Yeah. Al: Yeah. I guess another factor, Joe, it looks like
maybe he and his wife have separate money cuz he's saying he needs $40,000 per year
to maintain his lifestyle.

So we're assuming his wife is covered for
her lifestyle with her pension. And her savings. So I guess we make that assumption too. Joe: Well he is gonna make her work longer
and get that health insurance. Al: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Joe: Well you could bag it. Put it in the bag, Jared. Put that retirement right in that bag. Joe: “Hello, YMYW family. Marcus from Queens, New York City. Long time listener, first time emailer. First, I love the show. I listen to it daily, driving my Mini Cooper. Married couple 27, 28, asking for some spitball
on how to maximize our financial situation.

We have a 3 year old mini Poodle and wifey
drives a Tesla Model Y. I just got her on the YMYW podcast and she
loves it.” Killing it. Way to go, Big Al. Al: And Mr. Joe. Joe: “Here's our situation. W2 income, $300,000 evenly split. I have a 1099 job that brings in about $60,000. Currently, we are both maxing out our 403(b)
contributions plan to the max. We both don't have the you-know-what, and
I always felt like it would be too much of a hassle given the fact that we needed to
do the back door traditional to Roth. After listening to your podcast, now I feel
like such an idiot for never opening up a Roth IRA and doing the yearly backdoor.” Got to do the yearly backdoor, Big Al. Al: If you qualify. Yes. And you're in your 20s, it's not too late.

Joe: “We own our home in NYC with about
$800,000 in equity and $400,000 mortgage, 3.65% fixed, 25 years, no other debt. We plan to live here for the next 5 to 10
years. After all, mortgage, cars, living expenses,
we all are saving on an average of $10,000 and are basically funding it into our Vanguard
brokerage account. Current brokerage account is $300,000; 403(b)
has around $100,000 together. The 403(b) plan at doesn't have great options-
The 403(b) plans that they have do not have great options. So ours are in a simple tax deferred 2060.” So that's a- Andi: Target date fund. Joe: -target date. Thanks Andi. “We plan on continuing to max our 403(b)
and beginning to realize the account will have some serious taxes upon withdrawals,
RMD age.” He's worried about RMD age- Al: In his 20s.

Yeah, well, you got to think ahead. Joe: He's a planner. Al: Because by age 75 they're going to be
high. Joe: “For my 1099 job, I've been contributing
to the SEP IRA to around 25% of my net. Wife would like to retire at around age 45.” Wifey’s a little FIRE girl. “We expect our yearly expenses at retirement
to be about $150,000 to $200,000. Both jobs will have a pension that will likely
add at least $40,000 of fixed income at retirement each. I plan to work on to 55 and hopefully retire
on the sunny island of Maui.” Al: Wow, you were just there. Joe: I was just there. I was on the sunny island of Maui. “I understand we are in a very privileged
situation and would like to take the most of our finances. Is there anything we are missing? And do you have friendly conversations on
what else we should be doing? Thank you guys for amazing podcasts and Andi's
random comments. It's hilarious. I have learned so much and will continue to
listen for as long as you guys are hosting. Thanks again with love from NYC.” Andi: Awww.

Al: Wow. That's very sweet. Joe: It's just made my heart go pitter pat. Andi: Thanks, Marcus. Joe: He's got $300,000 of W2 income. So they're making $360,000 a year. They're maxing out the 403(b) plans. They got $100,000 in 403(b) plans together,
$300,000 in the brokerage account. So they got $400,000 all day. Does that make sense? Al: That makes sense, yes. Joe: Okay. And then they’re 27, 28, and she wants to
retire at 44, and he's going to retire at 55. So he's got about 30 years and she's got around- Al: Got about 20- Joe: – ish- Al: Something like that. Joe: But they want to live off $150,000 to
$200,000 a year. They're going to have some pensions at $40,000
but I don't think a pension is going to pay out at45 years old. Al: I don't think so either.

So I think what their plan- So she's going
to retire before him, so he's going to work that extra 10 years, which presumably would
cover their living expenses, but perhaps they wouldn't be saving as much. So basically, they have little less than 20
years to save a bunch. Joe: So, Marcus, you're leaving out a couple
of things that we need here to have a little friendly conversation or a little spitball. We need to know how much you're spending,
bud. Because that kind of drives how you back in
the numbers. For instance, if you're spending $60,000 a
year and you want to retire at- she wants to retire at 44, but you're making $150,000
W2 and $60,000, the only thing that's really going to be adjusted is probably how much
money that you're saving in your brokerage account.

So whatever dollar that you're saving or spending,
you just index that with inflation. So at age 44, okay, you're still good, but
your savings rate is going to go down. Or you go to age 55, that $60,000 in 20 years
from now is like more or less $100,000. But you want to spend $150,000 to $200,000
in retirement. So does that mean at your retirement or does
that mean her retirement? Because then that's going to dictate how much
that you can actually save. Because- Al: Right. And is that in current dollars or is that
in 20 years from now or 30 years from now? Joe: Because let's just say he wants to spend
$150,000 and they want that $150,000 at his retirement. So that's what 30 years from now? Al: Yeah, almost. Joe: So if I'm looking at that, 30 years,
and let's just assume 3.5% inflation. So that's $421,000 and he's at 55 and you
don't want to take on any more than 3% out of the portfolio- Al: – at that age. Joe: – at that age. So you need $14,000,000. That's a big, big number. Al: Right. Because you're probably not going to- well,
maybe they will be getting some pensions by then, but still, it's minimal compared to
what the need is.

Joe: Right. Because $200,000, given inflation in 30 years
is $400,000. And you take 3%, you divide that into $400,000. It's a huge number. Al: Now that's if this is in current day dollars. If it's in future dollars, then it's not quite
as big. Joe: Yes. So if you want $150,000 in future dollars,
so now you need $5,000,000. You already have $400,000 saved. And then you have 30 years and let's say you
get 7% on your money and you save $50,000 a year. Now that's $8 million. You could run the numbers any way that you
want. You're very fortunate because you have huge
resources in regards to how much money that they make. So I don't even know what the hell the question

Andi: He just wants to know if he's on track,
if there's anything that they're missing, anything else they should be doing. Al: I think the answer is you're saving a
ton, which is going to allow you flexibility in the future. And in terms of- it's just a matter of really
kind of dialing this in. Because we don't know if the $150,000 or $200,000
is in today's dollars or future dollars, because that makes a huge difference. Because as Joe just said, $200,000 in 30 years
from now is going to be like $425,000 or whatever number you came up with going to be double.

Joe: It's a big number. So then the amount of money that you have
to save to get there is going to change significantly. Unless you're like, hey, I want $150,000 future
dollars is fine, too. Al: Now they are saving 403(b) as well as
about $120,000- they're saving about $10,000 a month. Or is that $10,000 a year, in their brokerage
account? Must be $10,000 a month because they already
have $300,000 in it. Joe: Yeah. So if they're saving $200,000 a year. Sounds right? Al: I’d say $150,000. Good number. Joe: All right. So they're saving $150,000 a year. They already have $400,000 saved. Let's say you got 20 years for wifey to retire. So that's $8 million in 20 years. You take 3% of that. It's $250,000 of income that can be produced
if he's still going to work for another 10 years. You don't take the income from that. Al: You let it grow. Joe: That's going to continue for another
10 years and you don't save anymore. Maybe you don't even have to save anymore.

Because you got $8,000,000 growing. That's going to turn into $16,000,000 in 10
years. Potentially it could double, right? So yeah. I think, Marcus, you're on track. Dial in exactly much you need in future inflated
dollars in retirement, and what your shortfall is, just by following the simple steps in
Big Al’s Quick Retirement Calculation Guide, which you can download from the podcast show
notes. It does require you to do a little math, so
we’ll understand if you’d prefer to just click Ask Joe and Big Al On Air in the show
notes and let them spitball it for you. Make sure to tell the fellas how much you
make and save and spend, and how much you’ll need to spend in retirement, for a more accurate

By the way, Marcus’ question originally
aired in episode 373 and if you’d like to go listen to the whole thing, including the
related Derails, it’s also linked in the podcast show notes. Click the link in the description of today’s
episode in your favorite podcast app. Joe: Talking money, finance, wealth, booze. Al: Yeah. Dogs, cars. Yep. We get a little bit of everything. Andi: And Hawaii. Al: Yes. Hawaii. And you know what? We love your questions and the colors, cuz
it sort of puts us in the right frame of mind as to where you live, kinda what you're all
about, where you're listening to our show. That's why we ask you what you drink, because
some people like to listen to us while they're drinking, so that's why that originally came
up. Joe: Yeah. Myself- Andi: Joe likes to do the show while he is

Al: Although we do enjoy drinking as well,
I will throw that out. Joe: We got Robin. She emailed Andi. Is this a personal friend? Andi: No, she's not. She actually had originally replied to one
of our newsletters and said, can you just answer a general Roth conversion question
for me? And I said, go ahead and send it to me, and
then I will get it in front of the guys. And then this is how she replied. Joe: Okay. “We all know that there is tax for Roth
conversions. I was looking for how to calculate it. I think I figured it out. I thought I could get away with no tax if
stocks were losers, but I think the dollar amount transferred is still counted as income
to be taxed. Is that correct?” That is correct, Robin. Ding, ding, ding. So if, if there's losers in stocks, Al, that's
a capital loss. Al: Yeah and capital losses only offset capital

Capital gain being, like if you sell a stock
or mutual fund at a gain. If you have capital losses, you can offset
those against them. You could also use it against real estate. If you sold real estate for a gain, that's
a capital gain. You can use your stock losses against that. But that's only one category. That's capital. Most items are ordinary income. Which this is. A Roth conversion is considered ordinary income,
same as salary, right? Same as dividends, interest, pension. All those are ordinary income and they are-
they stand on their own. In other words, you can't deduct your capital
losses against ordinary income. And I would say the way that you calculate-
the best way, maybe the most difficult, is get yourself a tax projection software and
put your tax return in best that you think it will be. And then put the Roth in- conversion and take
it out and see what the difference is.

But a quicker way is to take a look at your
marginal tax bracket which you have to go to your tax return, taxable income line. Look at what that is. Go to the tax table, look at your marginal
rate. And then that's the rate most likely that
you'll multiply that Roth conversion by to get what your tax will be. You have to do that for federal and state. Joe: Okay. So yeah, hopefully she can figure that out. A couple things though. You know, we talk about doing conversions
when stocks are losers or stocks are down because you want the recovery of the overall
stock market to happen in the Roth. So let's say you have an account and it's
down 20% hypothetically, and you might want to consider converting those dollars because
they're down in value. Maybe it's a mutual fund, maybe it's an ETF.

If it's a falling knife, if you have some
high flyer stock that could go to zero, maybe not the best choice. But if the market is overall down and you
do a conversion and the market recovers well, you've got 20% more, or you got a 20% discount,
if you will, on tax by converting when the market's down. And so maybe she got it confused by saying,
well, if you said, if there's stocks that are down or losers, and I did a conversion
that might offset. You still wanna do conversions when the market's
down, it's the best time to do a conversion.

Because all the recovered of the overall market
will grow into the Roth IRA, which will be 100% tax-free. Most people get paralyzed when the markets
are down. But there's a ton of tax strategy that they
should be looking at in regards to volatile markets, I guess. Al: Yeah that's well said, Joe, because that's
actually the best time is when the market's lower. Because when the market's lower, then it's
got a higher expected return in the future. In other words, you're buying stocks while
they're cheaper or buying mutual funds better yet, or ETFs, index funds while they're cheaper. You still have to pay the tax though, but
the tax won't seem as bad. If you buy, let's just say you do $80,000
of Roth conversion, and within a year or two it's up to $100,000.

It kind of takes a little bit of the sting
out of the tax in that you've got now $20,000 extra in a Roth IRA, which will be forever
tax-free. Joe: You got it. Joe: Alright, we got John Brown. He writes in from Nevada. “Hey, please use the name John Brown or
some other made up name. My question is in regards to Roth versus traditional
contributions. Wife and I in our late 30s. She makes $100,000 and my income fluctuates
between $250,000 and $350,000. Our current assets are $240,000 in a Roth,
$150,000 in a traditional, $500,000 in company stock and after-tax brokerage accounts, $230,000
in equity in a rental property and $50,000 in cash. My 401(k) offers a Roth option, which I was
contributing to, but changed last year in an effort to try to get to a 50/50 Roth and
traditional balance and reduce how much we are paying in taxes. Is it a good idea to aim for a 50/50 split? We both max out our 401(k)s each year and
have the extra income to pay the taxes now. Everyone always leaves out some crucial information
that you need, but hopefully I've covered most of it.” Well, besides your name, John Brown.

Okay. “I drive a Jeep Grand Cherokee and listen
to your show as I drive around making sales calls.” Hopefully he gets a good deal after listening
to this. Al: Yeah, right? Joe: He's sitting right in front of the house. I wonder if he's like door-to-door sales guy?
Or do you think he's going to companies? Probably B-to-B. Al: Oh, I think, yeah, I think he's B-to-B.
I think that's how most sales people are. Andi: Sells shower curtain rings. Joe: Yeah. Shower curtain rings. I dunno. Maybe a vacuum or something. Al: No, I don't think so. Joe: In his little Jeep Cherokee? Al: It's gotta be B-to-B. Joe: He's like, he's getting pumped up for
this big sales call coming up here. “Depending on the occasion, I could be sipping
on a little Maker's 46, neat.” All right, I kinda like that. “Nice red wine or Gray Goose martini, straight
up with blue cheese olives. Martini snobs frown on this type of olive
in drink because it creates an oily sheen on the top.

They can go pound sand. I'm drinking it, not you.” That's right. John Brown. I'll have one with you. “I've learned a lot and always look forward
to the next episode. Thanks in advance for your spitball.” All right. 50/50 split, Big Al. What do you think? Al: Yeah, I think that's fine. Here's a couple thoughts off the top of my
head. So, depending upon whether John Brown's salary
is $250,000 or $350,000 plus his wife's salary. He's- they're gonna either be in the 24% bracket
or 33% bracket. So, but at age late 30s, yeah, I would say
chances are income's only going up, I would be probably inclined that I would go all Roth
because I probably will be in the 24% bracket. And I think my- I'm guessing that my income's
only gonna go up and I'd wanna get the Roth in now, particularly because the compounding
effect on Roth IRA is tax-free. That's probably what I would do. Joe: So, there’s no right percentage in
my opinion.

I think there's percentages that- just back
of the envelope, rule of thumbs you can kind of throw out there- but tax diversification
is really depending on what John Brown's income is going to be in the future, right? Because he's in a fairly high tax bracket
today. But let's say in 20 years from now, he wants
to retire and we don't know how much John Brown is spending. We just know that he makes a lot of money
and he saves a lot of money. So again, yes, John you've left out some crucial
information here for us to kind of do a proper spit ball, but it depends on how much that
he's making, right? Because tax diversification gives you optionality
in a withdrawal strategy.

So a lot of times people have most of their
income or most of their assets in a retirement account that is always gonna be subject to
ordinary income. And so depending on if they have a fairly
modest lifestyle, well then that money compounds in the overall retirement account. And then once they hit the required minimum
distribution age, then they're forced to pull a lot of that money out, that might kick 'em
into higher tax brackets. On the other hand, if someone's spending a
ton of money, then it's like, well here, yeah, I want IRA money, but then I also want Roth
money to keep me out of those higher tax brackets.

So there's a little bit more sophistication,
I think, to go along with how you wanna look at this. But I think if you want a real simple answer,
I don't think it's 50/50. You look at your tax bracket. If you're in the 24% tax bracket, go 100%
Roth. Because you're 30 and you make good money
and you're saving a ton of money. You already said you had the money to pay
the tax. So I wouldn't worry about 50/50. I'd go 100% contributions into my Roth. Al: Yeah, same here. And I think it- it's hard to know exactly
what tax bracket you're gonna be in because his- his salary's variable. And I would answer this differently if John
Brand was 60. But John Brown's 39, so I would tend 100%
Roth too. Because chances are most, or all of that deduction
that you would've gotten is in the 24% bracket, which is- it's not nothing but it compared
to the 37% bracket and 33%, 35% bracket, it's a low bracket, so I'd wanna get the money
in right now.

2026, the rates go up. You'll probably be in the 28% bracket or even
subject to alternative minimum tax. Which could be as high as 35%. I just think at least for the next two, 3
years, I would go all Roth and then reevaluate. That's what I would do. Joe: Yeah, because he's 24%, 32% bracket wise,
the top of the 24% tax bracket is $364,000 of taxable income. So it depends on if he's on the $350,000 or
$250,000 range. If he's on the $250,000 range, plus his wife's
income, plus you know, the standard deduction and so on, he'd be in the 24%. I'd go Roth. Al: Right. That's right. Joe: If he's got a higher earning year, then
you kind of play with it. Maybe you do a little bit of pre-tax and then
maybe the rest Roth. Al: The other factor too is he's already got
a lot of money in Roth, so he is already got a great start, right? So it's not like he has to go extreme, like
he's got nothing in it.

Now, for example, if the income's gonna be
$350,000 for the next 3 years, you might think about that a little bit differently. Maybe you want the tax deduction or maybe
you wanna do some Roth, just a smaller amount. And it's- I agree with you, Joe, there's no
particular percentage, per se. It's kind of your ability and willingness
to pay the tax. Some people can do it. The people that can look longer term have
an easier time of paying it. The people that cringe over the dollars going
out at that exact moment have a lot harder time with that. Joe: You know, I got a buddy. Let's call him Jay Brown. Al: Okay. Jacob. Joe: He's in a fairly high tax bracket. A little bit older than John Brown. But would go 100% Roth IRA. Let's say they're in 37%. Tax bracket goes 100% Roth IRA. Because the tax deduction today that you're
getting, the amount of compounding of tax-free growth- you're gonna forget about the tax
deduction anyway. And you're not gonna save the money that you've
saved in tax.

So, I mean, for me, people in their 20s and
30s and even 40s, I think it makes a lot more sense to have 100% tax-free growth. It takes the uncertainty of where tax rates
are gonna go totally off the table. So I know scientifically you wanna look at
things, but I think emotionally and at the end of the day, they're gonna be a lot happier
when they look at their account balance and they got millions in a Roth versus millions
in a retirement account. Al: Particularly if you're the type of person
that by the time you get your net pay, you spend it. So if you get that tax deduction, you're just
gonna spend it. You might as well go Roth for savings. You'll be in a much better spot later on. You can download 10 Steps to Improve Investing
Success for free from the podcast show notes right now, for guidance on how to invest those
Roth contributions wisely. Following the key investing principles in
this guide will broaden your investment universe and help control your emotions and your risk
– which can lead to higher returns in your portfolio, and retiring with more wealth.

Take your investing skills to the next level. Click the link in the description of today’s
episode in your favorite podcast app, go to the show notes, and download 10 Steps to Improve
Investing Success for free – you’ll find it right before the episode transcript. Joe: Got Mike from Utica, New York. Lot of New Yorkers this week. Al: Yeah. Joe: That's where we're getting all the one
stars. “Hey there everyone. My family and I are on our way to America's
Credit Union Museum in New Hampshire. It was the first credit union in the US.” That sounds like a great trip. Al: You know, if I were Mike's kids, I would
just be jumping up and down. Joe: I think I gotta go. “My kids are 13 and 10 and both of them
came with us on this exciting family vacation.

Currently playing a couple of your older episodes
in the car for everyone to listen on our way there.” Al: So between our episodes and the destination,
‘kids, we got a great trip planned’. Joe: God, feel sorry for those kids. Oh man, that's funny. “Now to my question. I currently make about $150,000 a year. My wife is a stay-at-home homeschool teacher
for our children. I'm trying to figure out if sending them to
this Hollywood stunt training camp for kids is the best thing to do. I currently have-“ Andi: Yes, that's just the answer. Joe: “-I currently have about $10,000 in
a 529 plan for both children. But they have both told me they wanna be actors
or entertainers when they grow up and they don't see themselves wanting to go to college.

The camp costs $7000 per child for the entire
Summer. I'm just not sure if I should send them to
this camp or just continue to saving for their future education in the 529. I should add that I do have the money to do
it if you think it would be beneficial in some way. Thank you guys for your thoughts and I look
forward to hearing them. I also wanna say I drive a 2012 Honda Odyssey
as the family car. No pets, highly allergic. Drink of choice is Red Bull mixed with some
ice cold bourbon. Love me some extra energy.” All right, Kung Fu camp. Al: Yeah. What do you think? You're a new dad, is that- what would you
do that? Joe: I'm definitely sending my kids to Kung
Fu camp.

Andi: Can you use 529 plan for going to stunt
training? Joe: I don't think you can use a 529 plan
for the camp of being a stunt double of some sort. Al: No. Yeah. You cannot. Joe: I don't know. I think that sounds like fun. Al: So me personally I would not do it. I would get them enrolled in youth theater
locally and put the money in a 529 plan. They're only 10 and 13. Things change by the time they get to college
age. That's what I would do.

Trying to be the sensible dad. You would be the cool dad though. You would send them and you would say, you
know what? You can go every Summer. Joe: I would try to enroll myself. Looking at- what, community theater. Oh, that just sounds so boring. Al: No youth. It's a youth- it's for kids- youth theater. They have 'em in San Diego. They have 'em in every town. Joe: Really? Did you send yours there? Al: No, because they weren't interested. However, my two nieces, Todd's kids, they
both were in youth theater for a decade. Joe: Really? Did they make it- ? Al: No. However, the oldest daughter is gonna try
out for a adult play, now that she's just finished college. Joe: Okay. An adult play. I thought that was- Al: No. Oh, I see what you- yeah, I said that- I didn't
say that well. Joe: It was like, oh boy. The wheels really came off there. Al: Yeah, that's a little slippery. Joe: That's what happens when you go to community

Al: Yeah, for sure. Then you have no filter. Joe: Alright. Anything else? Andi: Nope, that's it. Joe: Alright we'll see you next week. The show is called Your Money, Your Wealth®. Andi: Speculating on John Brown, Hefeweizen,
America’s Credit Union Museum, and Wall Drug in the Derails, so stick around. Help new listeners find YMYW by leaving your
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